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      • #1076
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        I don’t think it’s really unstoppable, just very difficult to stop. There’s been a steady reduction in religiosity for years in most western cultures [1], even middle eastern countries are showing signs of less religious belief [2]. A good question might be why this is happening.

        [1] https://blog.oup.com/2020/12/why-is-religion-suddenly-declining/
        [2] https://www.dw.com/en/middle-east-are-people-losing-their-religion/a-56442163

      • #281
        Argumentative Atheist
        Keymaster
        Points: 100,916

        That really sucks 🙁

      • #254
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        Welcome 🙂

      • #4098
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        Thank you 🙂

      • #4074
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        Yes, I’ve discussed most of these inconsistencies before and they are fairly common discussion topics for people who are likely to find this website. Part of the difficulty with discussion on these subjects is that many of them are not consistent in church doctrine. An easy example is Lillith, many churches don’t accept that Lillith ever existed. One of the most important parts of any discussion like this is often finding out which beliefs are “correct” for the other person in the conversation.

        I’m happy to talk to you about any of these subjects from an Atheist’s perspective if you like :).

      • #4010
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        Absolutely, although to be fair I think this is true for nearly any group that you care to name.

         

      • #4007
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        That’s not even close to the rationale of my argument. The closest approximation to your summary would be that if we consider being religious equal to being deluded then *everyone* is deluded. You basically ignored everything I said.

      • #3994
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        Morality is a completely separate conversation that has nothing to do with the definition of delusion. I am not in any way going to try and defend religious morality.

        Religion is usually not a delusion. It is not in any way a mental illness. Mental illness can trigger delusions that involve religion, but religion itself is in no way a mental illness. This is discussed in a separate post I made on the subject [1].

        I will not argue that religions wield enormous power in society, and that this is in no way healthy. But you cannot honestly characterise the people who run them as deluded unless you mean it in a way that characterises everyone as deluded, essentially making the term meaningless. If instead you use the term to suggest that they are mentally ill then you are simply not correct. While some of them may be mentally ill, indeed being unhealthily narcissistic is overly represented at the top of just about any large organisation, the mental illness they may have is not a symptom of their religion.

        “Now that is delusion”. Nothing in the sentences prior to this statement indicates delusion. You point out how society is not structured in a sensible manner, and how people suffer as a result of this. But it is not an indication of delusion.

        As for Richard Dawkins, anyone can debate human behaviour, but if you are going to hold someone up as an authority figure, as you did, then you have to demonstrate that they have expertise in the field being discussed. Richard Dawkins, while an admirable scientist in many ways, does not. Being “articulate and intelligent” does not qualify you to be considered an authority figure on anything. I agree that he is articulate an intelligent, but I also find him pompous, arrogant and dismissive of views that he does not agree with/understand. His work on biology is amazing, his works on religion are amazing so long as you already agree with everything he’s saying.

        [1] https://freethinkersforum.net/topic/why-religion-is-not-a-mental-illness/

      • #3991
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        Points: 100,916

        1) Richard Dawkins is a biologist, not a psychologist.

        2) Why would you assume I have not read The God Delusion? I have. It puts forwards a lot of good arguments, but like most things by Richard Dawkins it is very self satisfied, very self congratulatory and you can see that he helps himself to feel superior by denigrating religious people. This is a common theme with RD’s arguments.

        3) I did not cherry pick definitions at all, I presented three different definitions of delusion for consideration, two from a commonly used dictionary in which I addressed all definitions presented by the dictionary, and a psychological definition of delusion as presented in a peer reviewed paper specifically on delusion.

        Even if we ignore that and just use the definition you present, your definition is itself evidence for my argument. You actually present two separate definitions, in the first you may note the word “idiosyncratic”. Idiosyncratic beliefs are ones that are peculiar or unusual. Religious belief is in no way peculiar or unusual. In fact in many places in the world it is more unusual to be an atheist, as such if you are going to go by this definition to describe a delusional person an argument could be made to suggest that atheists are more delusional than religious people. It also goes on to specify that this is a characteristic of mental illness. Religion is not a mental illness.

        The second definition you provide characterizes delusional to mean nothing more than having faulty judgement, and presents it as a synonym for being mistaken. In this case it is essentially meaningless, and literally anyone can reasonably be called delusional. Everyone is mistaken about something. It is impossible to be correct about everything. If this is your justification for calling religious people delusional then you are also delusional, as am I, as is every other person you have ever met.

        4) Religion can be a symptom of delusion, but delusions are by nature immutable. They don’t change to account for the changing understanding of the person who believes the delusion. This is not true for most religious belief, which notably changes depending on the individuals understanding of their own religion. Which can change quickly depending on circumstances. In fact one of the most notable aspects of religious belief is how easily they can adapt to circumstances.

        There are times when this is not true, sometimes religion is a symptom of delusion, but this is only true when the delusion is a feature of a medical, neurological or mental disorder. I really think you would benefit from reading the paper I gave a link to on delusion, it is specifically about understanding delusion and is titled “Understanding Delusion”. It goes into detail to specify the differences between a delusion and an overvalued idea, which is what I think you may be confusing the term with. You can find it here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016695/

      • #1311
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        Points: 100,916

        Sounds like a reasonable response to me. And I think it follows my own thoughts on the subject fairly wel.

      • #947
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        Points: 100,916

        I think we have a long way to go before we can really get debates going, but I hope to get things running soonish.

      • #344
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        Points: 100,916

        Sorry I didn’t reply to this earlier, I was having an issue with the activity feed where comments were not showing up when posted. I think I have it pretty much solved at the moment.

        People had the ability to edit their comments set for about 5 minutes after someone makes a post. It should now be set to an unlimited length of time. Please let me know if you have any issues editing your comment now.

      • #326
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        I’m currently advertising on Facebook to attract new members. I’d like to start advertising on Google Ads, but I need to make a company to register with them first. I’ll be looking into that over the next couple of weeks to see what I can do. I’m also applying to a few different affiliate programs to see what I can get the website associated with.

        I agree, we’re nowhere near critical mass, and I think it’s likely to take a while to get there. Any ideas to help build membership would be appreciated.

      • #225
        Argumentative Atheist
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        Points: 100,916

        So how would you define anti-Zionism?

        Because the way that it’s portrayed by pro-Zionists is that anti-Zionism is objection to the idea that Jewish people can have their own country. And this is the understanding that many Jewish people have.

        My prior understanding of anti-Zionism was objection to Israel’s expansionist policies. In this regard I am an anti-Zionist, but I don’t object to the very idea that Jewish people should be allowed to have a country to call their own.

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